Shortly after the publication of its first position paper on natural refrigerants, the leading U.S. association for the HVAC&R industry is taking concrete steps to drive the agenda for R744. A new project proposal invites applications to explore lubricants for CO2 refrigeration.
Compatibility with: lubricants and CO2 it's a problem, but lubricant and CO2 AND Rubber (FKM, NBR, CR, EPDM, PUR,....)
Cupper
Stainless steel (austenitic , ferritic,..)
Brass
Plastic (POM, PVDF, PTFE, PCTFE, ....)
is another important problem!
Regards
Nice of ASHRAE to start with lucricants, only the idea is 15 years too late.
Why not start with small appliances which can be used with CO2 such as Coca Cola is promoting.
CO2 equipment counts only for less than 2.5 % of the refrigeration industry turnover ( very nice to have a special website only attributed to CO2 but what about the 97.5% of industry working with Halocarbons.
I have always been an advocate of Hydrocarbons ( from 20 years ago) but with the new HFO-1234yf
fluid ,I must admit that I am basically looking for Low GWP fluids.
If this fluid is one of them and acceptable, than I am totally for it. Our 97.5% of Trade-people can handle this fluid without any new certicates and can retrofit every plant from CFC12 and HFC134a to HFO1234yf with only smallchanges.
That this fluid will 1be 10x more expansive is irrelevant ,a speicail reason to make systems leak proof.Third world countries not able to afford these expensive fluids have to do with HC's.
But as a white world citicen who cares as discribed in one of UNEP papers from the late 2000's
Would appreciate members views on this issue as I get a strong feeling that all the websites by
Shecco are for the elite in ndustry and the purchasers of US$ 60 billion of equipment are left out in the dark to my opinion. I suggest set up a special website for those people and your sponsering
will be rocketing.
This development of ASHRAE towards natural refrigerants is very welcome. Regarding the stability of lubricants, I was of the impression that compressors' developpers and producers would have adressed this issue as a critical one before putting CO2 compressors and CO2 based equipments on the market. Isn't it the case? Are there lubricant stability data publicly available?
Compressor developers / producers have undoubtedly addressed the lubricant stability issue with respect to their specific system compatibility before marketing of such products, however the increasing utilisation of R744 can be further supported if lubricant stability data can be made available in the Ashrae handbook , as little information is commonly available in open literature.
The environmental impact of all systems, certainly including trends toward a variety of low GWP refrigerant options, is an area which is actively encouraged by Ashrae to be addressed with potential Ashrae Research Proposals as part of the Ashrae Research Strategic Plan 2005-2010. Contribution to defining the research required is actively encouraged to be industry-wide, via the participation of interested parties in the various associated Ashrae forums.
From the beginning, the purpose of R744.com – as the name indicates – was to draw attention to the fact that CO2 Technology was there as a viable alternative for a wide range of applications. We try to help the CO2 industry connect, exchange ideas and discuss remaining challenges, and thereby ultimately, yes, to help spread the use of R744 in developed BUT also developing countries.
We clearly do not see it as our task to set up an exchange platform for the halocarbons refrigeration industry, as this is not compatible with our understanding of sustainable solutions for cooling and heating applications. It has never been and will never be Shecco’s intention to promote chemical refrigerants with known (ozone layer depletion, global warming) and unknown (toxicity, safety for humans and the biosphere) consequences. This applies to proposed low-GWP refrigerants, as well.
And referring to your comment about Shecco only serving the “elite in industry”: R744.com was designed on purpose as a business-to-business platform where all involved in researching, developing and selling CO2 Technology are welcome to interact, but also all these not yet familiar with the technology. The open discussion platform and myR744 give businesses, purchasers, and end-consumers the possibility to contact each other and ask questions. And every day we get comments and inquiries from individuals and organizations interested in R744, from all around the world, including developing countries. But I agree that the full potential on the consumer side has not been fully exploited yet. This would be subject to another project.
Finally, the ASHRAE initiative comes late but at least it comes, in a time where we are entering post-Kyoto Protocol discussions, involving both industrialized and emerging economies. Recognising natural refrigerants as viable alternatives in a world region that has a traditional stronghold in the manufacture of chemical refrigerants is a first step.
Feel free to react in case I didn’t interpret some of your comments correctly.
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